From Panama, With A Full Chest

FSA student Maurice Carter sits down with educator Alberto Groves to talk about Panamanian identity, history, and culture.

Maurice Carter: Mr. Alberto, both you and I are Panamanian.  What's your family history with Panama?  

Alberto Groves: I was lucky enough to visit Panama every summer when I was a little kid. So I had that ingrained in me. Instead of going to vacation spots or resorts, I would be staying at my aunt's, uncle's, grandmother's places. So Panama for me was like everyday life, summer life. 

My family is from Colón. On my father's side, we grew up very aware of our Caribbean ancestry.  They were a family of Jamaican immigrants who, in the early 1900s, came to help build the Panama Canal.  And that Jamaican culture and tradition is very much alive in people that are from Colón. My mom's side is also Caribbean, but by a different way: Chinese and Garifuna, and specifically from Nicaragua. A lot of people who are Garifuna are from Honduras, but we are by way of Nicaragua on my mom's side. So Panama to me was just like a blend and mixture of culture. Realizing it, appreciating it, but also having Panama be its own thing as well at the same time. 

MC: It's a nice little history. Nice little connection you have, man. 

AG: Yeah, man. Makes for great food. 

MC: Yes. Yes. Feels like home. My next question: has there been any historical event in Panama that you've lived through, even if you weren't there and were in the U.S.? How did you feel about those historic events?  

AG: I was born in Harlem but as soon as I was born my family went back to Panama. I was one of the very few in my family to have actually been born in the United States. But when I was back there was when the U.S. invasion of Panama happened. This was when the United States took action against the then Panamanian leader, Noriega.

The United States came in and invaded the country, bombed a lot of the country, and removed the dictator from the country. 

MC: I'm sorry, sorry, I'm gonna say this is a very emotional topic for me to learn what you're talking about.

AG: Mm-hmm, you know, my mom would tell me stories about how, for Christmas that year, the Panamanian people were left to clean up dead bodies from the street. I was a baby but hearing those stories always made me sad, sometimes even angry. I think the angry part is, when I was in school in social studies, those history textbooks – you know, we're talking about the late 80s, early 90s – they would always ignore that invasion, like it never happened. I remember going to those timelines in the textbooks and seeing how they wrote about it. I would always see the war in Iraq, the first one in the 90s, and the textbook would go into detail and describe all the military tactics that they used in Iraq. But the textbooks never mention that all those tactics that they use in Iraq were first tested out in Panama.  And it always left me angry, it left me feeling empty inside that it wasn't acknowledged. To go through something like that and then it not even being acknowledged, it's very hurtful.

MC: Even though I've never lived through it, it's still a painful topic for me.  Would you say most of us find out about that history from family or other people who lived through it, and not in school? 

AG: I felt like I had no other resource than my family. And my family was interesting because I had a couple of aunts who married American soldiers. 

My dad remembers getting a call – I don't know if I'm revealing any government secrets now – he tells me he got a call from one of his brothers-in-law, an American soldier, who said, “Hey, I know you like to go out and have your quick drink before going home. Don't do that tonight. Just go straight home tonight.”

And stories like that stay with you. Stories like that and hearing the death tolls. And even hearing the numbers it still didn't sink into me until someone like my mother said, no, we were cleaning dead bodies for Christmas that year. 

There’s a legend. They say that Colón is so poor that when people leave and come back and see it, they cry because of how much it got impacted both by poverty that was in place by a lot of international relations, but also because of that invasion.  Colón is a Black city that does not get the attention, the support that it needs, and then it got bombed by a foreign government that makes it even worse. 

MC: I know about the legend and I will say this, it is true. I have seen most of my family members that are from there who came back to visit and talk about going down there and I always saw them just their eyes bawling, like tears, like I could feel their pain. It was like tears of happiness that they're back home but then sadness because they're not coming home to see very old past relatives that was lost during those times and that topic hasn't been brought up to me until I was like 12. 

So it really hurts and I actually feel very relieved, the fact that I'm hearing this from someone else who has also been through that.

AG: Yeah man. Two, three years ago I went back to Panama for the first time in like ten years  and I remember telling my parents, “I don't even want to go to the capital. I want to go to Colón.”  And they were very apprehensive, like, “it's a lot of crime there, you know.”  But that goes into that narrative that's underappreciating that beautiful, beautiful city.  So for me, having the conversations, people asking me what part of Panama [I’m from] like I tell them straight up I'm from Colón. And people give me a funny look every time but I say that with a full chest, full of pride. “I'm from Colón.” 

MC: That's where it all began for most of us. You can never judge a book by its cover, because even in dirt, there's always gold. And you know.

AG: That feeling is even in Panama too. I had to convince my wife to go to Colón. When I was in the capital and when I met somebody from Colón, it was all love. The energy was different. It was like, “Oh my God, you gotta go back to Colón,” “I know, I know, I'm going, I'm going.”  

MC: That was a lot. Shed a couple tears. Now for the final question. Is there anything you still hold on to or do traditionally, that's related to Panama? 

AG: See that's an interesting question because Panama is such a blend of identities and cultures. But I think the thing that speaks to me the most is the music. And reggaeton is like a worldwide sensation associated with Puerto Rico. But every time I hear that dembow – [beats a rhythm on a desk] – that's speaking to Jamaica. I know in my heart when I hear that dembow with Spanish lyrics that's speaking to Panama. That to me is the closest connection I ever feel.  Being a kid growing up in the South Bronx, and away from my relatives in Brooklyn, me going online and listening to El Roockie, Kafu Banton, and all these artists.

MC: Man, Ruben Blades 

AG: Yeah, Ruben Blades too.  My deepest connection to Panama is the appreciation of its music.  

MC: That’s heartwarming. I like to say, Panama music heals my soul. 

AG: It definitely does. 

MC: This mixture into one beautiful, beautiful sound. 

AG: It really is, because you're hearing the roots from Jamaica, from Trinidad, and then when you hear those roots connected to Spanish language, it's almost like time travel. I call it time traveling. It takes you back and you're feeling it in the present. It's such a wonderful feeling. 

MC: I actually do have something from Panama that I still hold on to that I've always kept. It's a family heirloom. And it means a lot because from my great, great, greats it's been passed down  to the males and I'm, sadly for my grandmother's side, I am her only grandson. And for my grandfather's side, I'm still the only grandson. So to them, it means a lot to them and it means a lot for me. Cause when my mom was born, there was nobody else to pass it to because it stayed for the males. My grandfather, as much as he wanted to pass it on to our mother, he couldn't.

And so, the day I was born I went to his house, and they have a video of him crying before he could hold me. And he had ran to his room real quick to grab something, came back with a black box. So it's a necklace. And he placed that around me.  And ever since then, that right there is my main connection to home. I'm very grateful to have that. I'm very grateful to be 

AG: You're not talking about this, are you? [holds up his own necklace]

MC: [laughing] Something like it!  Something like it. 

AG: It's very Panamanian. 

MC: Yes. Yes. And it has, because the only difference is that it has names carved in it. Because, from what I've been told, our ancestor made it from scratch and imprinted his name on it, and every time it gets passed on it's a new name carved on it.  Now, might not be too much room soon, but I had got my name carved in it after I was born. 

AG: Beautiful.  

MC: Yeah, so that's my connection that I hold on to.  That was today's questions.

AG: Thank you. 

MC: Thank you. Mr. Alberto.  

AG: It was a pleasure. Hope to do this again soon.  

MC: I agree.